Viktoria Bondar

Artem Berman: Hey. Hello, Viktoria.

Viktoria Bondar: Hello, Artem.

Artem Berman: With your permission, we can start. It will take approximately one hour of your time.

Viktoria Bondar: Okay.

Artem Berman: I have three types of questions. The first one is ‘I have never worked.’ The second one is ‘I was employed, but I am not employed presently. Permanently or temporarily.’

Viktoria Bondar: I have been working since I was 17 years old.

Artem Berman: Super-super. Then we will start our interview. For the most part, the subject is narrowly focused, but it includes some private aspects. That’s why you should answer within your comfort zone. Of course, you don’t have to tell us anything that is uncomfortable for you. Since the research is qualitative, then, of course, the more diverse the information you provide us, the better it will be. Well, the answers are supposed to be open-ended, not closed ones. I mean they won’t be, ‘Do you smoke? Yes, no.’ The question will rather be, ‘How do you feel about smoking?’ This will give you the opportunity to express your attitude. Well, it’s clear that we won’t talk about smoking. Well, let’s start. So, the first question. Six questions will be quick and simple, let’s say, formal. The first question, “Do you allow us to use this interview for scientific research?”

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, I do.

Artem Berman: Do you allow us to publish the interview on the website?

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, I do.

Artem Berman: Would you like to use your real name or a pseudonym?

Viktoria Bondar: My real name.

Artem Berman: What is your name?

Viktoria Bondar: Viktoria Bondar.

Artem Berman: Contact information: e-mail, phone number.

Viktoria Bondar: We have already exchanged it.

Artem Berman: How old are you?

Viktoria Bondar: 39.

Artem Berman: And then, “Gender”. You are unlikely to surprise me.

Viktoria Bondar: Female.

Artem Berman: Do you live independently or with your parents, or other relatives, or a partner? Are you married? Do you have children, or don’t you have them?

Viktoria Bondar: I am married. I have two children.

Artem Berman: Okay, got it. The ninth question. Again, please answer within your comfort. What kind of disability do you have? Trauma? Disease?

Viktoria Bondar: At the age of 20, because of a traffic accident I sustained a spinal compression fracture (four vertebrae were crushed, and the fifth was crushed and broken), damage to the cerebrospinal axis, multiple fractures on the right side of the body, the right clavicle protruded forward (like a broken piano key), and the right arm was torn out of its joint, which left it dead. The impact was so powerful that many of the muscles in the body ruptured and scattered between the bones. At the time of the accident, I woke up in the back seat, on the driver’s side. Ironically, it turned out to be the most dangerous place in the car. Such a shock during sleep was a powerful blow to the nervous system. I could not breathe, every movement (even swallowing saliva) caused a scream of pain, and the body couldn’t function normally anymore. At the moment of the accident I survived just because I did not fly out of the window (I was caught by a friend who was sitting next to me). And the fifth vertebra is practically immovable in the human body (even when broken).

Artem Berman: How did it influence your life in all aspects, in all its variety? How did it influence your social, family, personal, professional, educational life, etc.?

Viktoria Bondar: “Character is destiny” … What happened to me was the result of my desire to live at 100%, neglecting potential risks. I risked a lot, and it was unjustifiable. Only after that situation did I understand the meaning of the phrase, ‘Do not think about death, it thinks about you whether you want it or not …’ The result is obvious, I was looking for it, and I found it…

Artem Berman: Then everything was even worse.

Viktoria Bondar: I thought that strong emotions and an adrenaline lifestyle could help me forget the pain of losing a significant other that I had felt before the accident. I was wrong. The more adrenaline there was, the more emotional pain I felt. I understand now that it takes years to get over it, to have the strength to face pain, to accept and understand. It is necessary to give yourself time at that moment when you do not have the strength. I can say for sure: as soon as I devalued my life, I received a physical trial that has forced me to prove its value every day, all my life.

Artem Berman: Clear.

Viktoria Bondar: When at age 19 you die emotionally, and a year later, as a result of an accident, the body also refuses to live, then everything is at an end. Back then I heard phrases like: ‘there is almost no chance’, ‘things will get worse’, ‘and nothing will help you, there is no cure for such pain’, ‘… and is she still alive?’ There was a surprising calmness from the thought that, finally, it was all coming to an end. At that moment, only those people who really loved me were fighting for me, the ones who were not afraid to tell me the truth to my face and cried with me from the unbearable pain. They literally made me live, especially at first. I did not have the strength to fight for myself.

Artem Berman: What happened then?

Viktoria Bondar: Since no one could help me, I was taken out of the military zone to Kiev first by bus and then by plane. In Kiev, there were only military surgeons who agreed to examine me. Their verdict was to stop the strong anesthetic; if you want to live, then you will survive, and if you do not want to live, then no one can do anything for you; take the moomiyo.

Artem Berman: Yes, yes.

Viktoria Bondar: Three weeks after the accident, the hardcore began. I was lying on the board day and night, I could not move, because every movement caused unbearable pain. They fed me and gave me water forcibly because that also hurt unbearably. I cried and waited for death to set me free from my suffering body. When asked whether I had at least someone or something in my life for whose sake I was ready to fight, I answered: NO. Now I understand that I had put the question wrong.

Artem Berman: It turns out that the response to the question, “How did this affect your life in all its dimensions, I mean, social, family, etc.?” was that it ruined it, to put it briefly…

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, exactly. When sleep was gone and painful hallucinations began, reality became completely different. I distinctly felt the moment when the endless nothing appeared, in which there is no life. I realized that I had been given a life resource, and until it ran out, I had to live. Family, society and material things became meaningless to me. I did not want to live in pain and hurt others. My terrible reality was unimaginable in their eyes.

Artem Berman: I understand, yes.

Viktoria Bondar: The most persistent fighters in the struggle for me were my father and my girlfriend. Dad stubbornly accepted everything, but one day he stated: “… when a person wants to die, he/she cannot be held back; when you take this path, no one will need you, not even your loved ones. As soon as you decide this, I will send you to the hospital immediately, so that you die there. I have not seen anyone in my life whom the world would fight for. Choose for yourself.” Back then his words felt like a huge insult to me. Only later did I realize that my resentment was towards myself: first of all, I did not need myself. My friend is a unique person. She just came to stay with me and share my pain. Not to teach, not to help, but just to be with me … When I asked her, “Why are you here?” the answer was simple, “You know, I feel the need to be here, and I understand that just my presence here is changing a lot.” When you have at least one such person in your life, then it’s already a reason to stay.

Artem Berman: I see. Let us smoothly move on to the next question, namely, “How did the process of your rehabilitation begin? The social one included. What was the process of coming back to society? Who was helping you and what were the main difficulties?”

Viktoria Bondar: For a long time, I had been trying to find the answer to the question of why I should live. One night I had a dream. I saw a little girl who told me, “Mom, if you die, then I can never come into this world.” Then I was so shocked. That dream changed me. The world always answers quickly when the question is formulated clearly and sincerely.

Artem Berman: Back to the question, “Do you have two children?”

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, two children. And my first daughter was born. I needed six years to run the gamut from learning how to breathe, swallow and hold a spoon in my hands to the birth of a child. You know, I realized how reasonably nature planned everything, teaching us physiological skills at an early age when a child is ready to do the same thing a thousand times. To learn the same skills in adulthood is a thousand times more difficult. My body did not listen to my mind (when the brain gives the command to act and the body does not), and then the main question arose: how to help yourself.

Artem Berman: Did you use a wheelchair or …?

Viktoria Bondar: No. I was given a wheelchair on the second day in the hospital and told, “Sit down, we will get you to the car”. It was unbearably painful to sit down, and I decided that I would walk along the wall until I could move. Later I decided that I would not sit in it for fear that I would begin to feel sorry for myself and then life would change irrevocably. I used breathing exercises and physical therapy at the beginning of rehabilitation, and later yoga and pranayama.

Artem Berman: The function creates the organ.

Viktoria Bondar: Lying on the board, I learned to breathe: first superficially, then deeper and deeper. Proper breathing pushed the bones and muscles back into place. I managed to put my collarbone back into its natural place and pull some of the muscle from the shoulder joint into the chest. After that, the arm began to move a little. Lying down, I tried to move, then gradually to lift various parts of the body. By that time, a part of the muscles had already atrophied and did not obey at all. I tried not to concentrate on this, but to look for what was better today than yesterday. I imagined in my mind how I was doing what I could not do, and eventually the body responded to me with feedback. I still practice this now. After three weeks I stood up straight; it was still unbearably painful to sit.

Artem Berman: Do you mean it was three weeks after the injury or from the moment…?

Viktoria Bondar: Starting from the moment of the dream, it inspired me. Three months had passed since the injury. I learned to walk along the wall. There were 25-30 unbearable steps from my room to the toilet, and then the way back.

Artem Berman: Well, was it some kind of magic device in the form of a knee crutch or a Canadian crutch, or did you just walk without any …?

Viktoria Bondar: Without anything. I walked along the wall and sometimes pushed a stool in front of me (to rest on it with one knee when dizzy). Professional sports had taught me how to work with the body; I had to learn patience and relaxation.

Artem Berman: How?

Viktoria Bondar: I could not sleep. I had to figure out how to relax the body so that the brain would not work. I’m not a religious person, so my friend’s advice to start praying surprised me. Until then I did not know any prayers except “Our Father”. Then I thought that since I was lying there anyway, it was better to pray than to focus on the pain in my whole body. Only prayer could free me from my thoughts and put me to sleep for a short time.

Artem Berman: What happened physically?

Viktoria Bondar: The body had changed beyond recognition. Friends passed me by on the street. Then I gathered all my strength and left Ukraine. I went back abroad, and I designed dumbbells for myself: I took two plastic bottles and added a hundred grams of water to them every day. I did all the exercises just lying down. Friends said that it was unbearable to look at my agony. Half a year after the accident, they brought me to a lake to swim. The lake was about 700 meters in diameter. Then I decided to swim across the lake, thinking, if I did it, then for sure I would live. They took an air mattress and swam alongside. I swam across the lake. Then I lay on the floor for a week in agony, but it was a turning point. I realized that the body was manageable.

Artem Berman: The question is not for this interview, but… do you think that you are an adrenaline addict? Well, I mean, the kind of person who is looking for adrenaline, who needs challenges and who will try bungee jumping or might jump off a cliff if tomorrow she has the possibility.

Viktoria Bondar: I like to set goals that others consider unattainable for me and achieve them. If such a goal does not give new opportunities and can cause me physical suffering, I will refuse. I try to fill my life with joy and pleasure. The main condition is that they must fill me, not destroy me. This is not a momentary adrenaline rush, but a quiet joy of just being. It is difficult to feel this line, but it’s even harder to keep to it; it’s too tempting to live to the maximum again.

Artem Berman: I get it. Seeking risk is not your option…

Viktoria Bondar: The risk must be planned and justified. The body should be prepared and the head calm. Only then do I decide to take a risk.

Artem Berman: It turns out that you like to set goals, and achieve them, and this is the thrill.

Viktoria Bondar: Yes. To do a headstand, which I never did before the injury, and now it’s possible: this is happiness and the result that motivates me to work with my body all the time.

Artem Berman: Well, that’s part of the character. Perhaps because of this, you have found the strength to cope with this … Therefore, returning to the question “What was the process of returning to society?”, in principle, you have answered it. That is, it took some time and an infinite amount of your effort, both moral and physical, right? What or who helped? What were the obstacles? What would you add to this question?

Viktoria Bondar: In terms of socialization, I was helped by yoga. I’m not the only person in the world with similar difficulties, and there are people with problems that are worse than mine. The world is so boundless and diverse that to live in constant thoughts about yourself and your problem means to limit yourself in everything. It’s enough to have a person next to you who would say, ‘I understand what’s happening to you and I accept you just the way you are …’

Artem Berman: I experienced the same.

Viktoria Bondar: When medicine can’t help in such a situation, one needs someone who has experienced the same, who would help them to accept themselves in their new state.

Artem Berman: Yes. When it comes to rehabilitation, it reminds me of the movie “Garage”, ‘You have a wonderful profession. You do those things that don’t exist’. Rehabilitology as a science.

Viktoria Bondar: Sometimes a person who just sits next to you does more than all advisors.

Artem Berman: I have a question right away, “Would you happen to have a cat?”

Viktoria Bondar: No.

Artem Berman: Well, it seems…

Viktoria Bondar: No, I like people.

Artem Berman: Yes.

Viktoria Bondar: At first, I needed solitude to immerse myself in it and decide where to go. Once the decision to live had won, interaction with people became at first a necessity, and now it is a pleasure.

Artem Berman: So you needed a period of time and your own way to overcome difficulties. To be alone, to experience it in yourself. My understanding is that you needed to revive like a phoenix, and then to return to society in a new capacity.

Viktoria Bondar: It sounds good to say ‘yes’. Solitude is not the way for everyone. If I had a choice, then I would like to spend this period of life among those who have experienced and overcome similar difficulties. There are people who are ready and willing to help overcome these challenges; we should abandon arrogance and accept the fact that we cannot live without any help. We need to trust the experience of others and never stop making every effort. The result, as a reward in the struggle, came at the moment when my strength and faith had run out completely.

Artem Berman: And now I’ll just ask another question. Let’s start with education. Again, it’s up to you what to answer, ‘Did you have any education before the trauma happened?’

Viktoria Bondar: I entered the Faculty of Law at Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv. It was in 1996. At the end of my second year, I realized that I wanted to travel, and I could do that through external studies. I began to take my examinations as an extern. And in my third year, I passed a year as an extern and transferred to the fifth year by correspondence. Well, I wanted to work and study simultaneously. I started to work as a lawyer approximately one year before the accident.

Artem Berman: In parallel, you studied …

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, I studied by correspondence.

Artem Berman: Have you received any education after the trauma? Or have you already had it? Bachelor, for instance. And how did it happen?

Viktoria Bondar: It happened that, at the peak of the trauma, I had finals. Excellent results in my studies had provided me with a good relationship with the teachers. They knew me and helped me in a human way. I will remember and appreciate it all my life. During my finals, the teachers were scared that I would fall down and die. I looked so terrible. I passed everything quickly and then entered the master’s program. Well, I had six months to bring myself to a normal state, and I went on studying.

Artem Berman: Well, in the end, you graduated from the university with a master’s degree, so today you are a master of law. Two short questions: why did you choose jurisprudence? Was it a family tradition or something else? And why did you choose this specialization and university?

Viktoria Bondar: Jurisprudence was my childhood dream. I wanted to be an investigator. Criminal law attracted me very much. During my studies and practice, I liked to analyze, understand the psychology of the criminal, work with materials. Then I saw the corruption within the system and realized that I would spend many years of my life doing the very thing that this system destroys: justice. In view of my nature, upbringing, and knowledge, this meant betraying my principles and myself.

Artem Berman: Well, roughly speaking, the realization that ideally you imagined a picture of how you would be helping society, but in practice …

Viktoria Bondar: The system has perverted everything.

Artem Berman: So, you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs. Well, those are Ukrainian realities, let’s call it that.

Viktoria Bondar: Yes. I immediately decided that I’d better go to work as a lawyer in business. At least I’ll know what I’m earning my money for.

Artem Berman: Why did you choose Shevchenko? Was it because it is the best university in the country or did you have other thoughts?

Viktoria Bondar: Well, I’m such a perfectionist, and at that moment I thought that I needed the best university in the country in order to become a top-class specialist. I have no lawyers in my family, only doctors, military, managers and architects. All of them are people with higher education and scientific degrees. I did not have any support from my family in this sphere, so I had been preparing to enter the university for three years. I decided that I would do my best, and I did it. That is another long story of a hard road and lots of life lessons.

Artem Berman: Got it. Now let’s move to the next question. Is it your first job or…?

Viktoria Bondar: No, it is not.

Artem Berman: And why did you leave previous places?

Viktoria Bondar: I like to live with pleasure. It has always been so. While I didn’t have a family, I spent all my money on traveling.

Artem Berman: So, you left the previous place of work because you left the country and, let’s say …

Viktoria Bondar: Before the injury, my work was just a means, not a goal. I could find a suitable job regardless of location.

Artem Berman: Freelance.

Viktoria Bondar: Yes. After the injury I left the civil service because it was unbearably painful to sit at a desk all day long. I continued my career as a lawyer at a shoe factory with a salary of 50 dollars a month. It was only enough to pay for getting to work; however, it was directly in front of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra.

Artem Berman: Was that simultaneous with the continuation of your studies at the university, the sixth year, but already in practice?

Viktoria Bondar: Yes. Then it was difficult to work both physically and emotionally. Often, in order to get up in the morning, you had to concentrate all your strength. Everything was measured in distances: get to the subway, go to the office, walk around the floors, then go to court, then go home to collapse and sleep. For many years, the most difficult part was the morning: knowing what was awaiting me physically during the day, but still forcing myself to stand up and be positive for the whole day.

Artem Berman: Okay, got it. In general, the place where you work now, does it give you anything related to your health problems, some adaptive things, and, if so, what kind of adaptive support do you get?

Viktoria Bondar: Well, I will say that 98 percent of the employees who work with me do not even know that something like this has ever happened to me. I’m not a spoiled worker, but when the work is complex and requires a lot of effort, I insist on good conditions for myself (a good hotel room, a car, good food). I have always had a yoga mat and a large Lyapko mat with me, both at home and on the road; there is no need for anything else.

Artem Berman: Again, maybe there was a flexible schedule, well, the option to come later, leave earlier, anything?

Viktoria Bondar: I live in the rhythm of business. My task is to ensure a high level of profit. Of course, sometimes I need to be out of reach to recover. This is often critical before huge changes or starting a new complex project. When I deliver an excellent result, I have complete freedom from management, and I appreciate it. For some people it takes a lot of time, for others less, to achieve the same, so the value of the results is different. The computer and mobile are always with me, and my working day is not standardized.

Artem Berman: We have the result, and other things don’t matter.

Artem Berman: I heard, heard you, heard you. The next question. It is the fourteenth, ‘Have you ever been promoted? I do not even know how the word promoted would be in Russian. It seems to me, advanced. Have you ever been promoted up the career ladder? Do you see any career path in your current organization? Do you see yourself as a candidate for promotion? If so, why; if not, why not.’

Viktoria Bondar: Well, I’m often asked, ‘Why are you staying in this company for so long?’ At the start of my career, I often changed jobs: I was interested in good money, new opportunities and knowledge. Soon I realized that it was not the work that was developing me, but new knowledge. The work only makes it possible to apply it in practice.

Artem Berman: Did maternity leave change your life?

Viktoria Bondar: At first, I thought only of the child and decided to leave the company. However, as soon as this happened, the idea came up to open my own business project (souvenir production) with coverage all over Ukraine, and just a month later I was offered the chance to return to the company as the head of the Representative Office. The company approved such a combination. The project was successful. The next step was the opening of production for an even deeper penetration of the market. First, the war destroyed the production, and then the greater part of the project, but the main resource was the experience, and I am still the official representative of the company in Ukraine.

Artem Berman: You are the official representative of three ceramic factories in Ukraine. Do people listen to you; are you a full member of the team that makes decisions?
Viktoria Bondar: I present my vision of the strategy to the management and plan the achievable sales figures on the market. This is not a report, but long-term joint work, not a one-day thing, as a result of which all parties have a clear understanding of what will happen and how. My task is to identify and realize potential opportunities, to connect the interests of Ukrainian business with European business.

Artem Berman: In addition to this, you have a democratic leadership style, right?

Viktoria Bondar: Yes. I call this style a controlled democracy, calibrated to the cent.

Artem Berman: I heard you. The next question is: “What are the main challenges and difficulties associated with the consequences of your trauma you are experiencing in your work now?”

Viktoria Bondar: The manager should be prepared physically: it means that he/she should not only be stable, but more stable than everyone else. It is necessary to work with people of different temperaments, different moods, from different regions in conditions of stress and uncertainty …

Artem Berman: And you need to adapt instantly, understanding with whom you are dealing.
Viktoria Bondar: I never sell them a product, I sell them business, opportunities and a vision of new ways of working together. Different knowledge and skills are needed.

Artem Berman: Got it. Listen, the next question. You can answer it both in philosophical terms and in purely practical terms. The question is, “What were the reasons for you to start working and continue to work?”. Well, there is money, self-realization, but here you tell me. What prompted you to begin and what motivates you to continue?

Viktoria Bondar: Self-realization. Satisfaction from the achieved result. The ability to influence events and change people’s lives (I hope that these are better changes).

Artem Berman: We put the economic component in brackets at this stage.

Viktoria Bondar: To tell you the truth, when I realized that I could live on $50 a month …

Artem Berman: Nothing is scary anymore.

Viktoria Bondar: The financial component is significant, especially when you have children. Good conditions for them to grow up and study require a lot of money. Maintaining the body in good condition and developing it is also expensive. There is no miracle here.

Artem Berman: Got it. A similar question, ‘Could you hypothetically imagine yourself as unemployed, I mean, you have left work, and what would be the consequences of this?’

Viktoria Bondar: Now there is no reason for this, but anything can happen. It is more interesting with people; you can achieve more together than alone.

Artem Berman: Imagine that you have a house, a comfortable chair, a deckchair, sand, sun, a warm sea, and money, but there is no work. Could you live like this?

Viktoria Bondar: Yes. I like to meditate in such conditions. How do you measure productivity in meditation? The answer: no way. Meditation makes me feel my internal resources, see new possibilities for realizing myself in all the spheres of life that are interesting to me. And when I have that resource, then there’s always something to do. This inaction is very productive for me.

Artem Berman: It’s like in a cartoon, ‘It’s better to lose three days, but then fly there in five minutes.’

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, that’s right.

Artem Berman: Then we are talking about the option of leaving work as the achievement of nirvana? Moving from Samsara to Nirvana, is this liberation?

Viktoria Bondar: I would not say that this means leaving people altogether. That is not what I am talking about. While you are in society, you can understand the adequacy of what is happening in your head.

Artem Berman: Super, I have the seventeenth question about it, ‘Do you perceive work as an important mechanism of rehabilitation and integration into society?’ I think, yes.

Viktoria Bondar: Surely. Work should give people pleasure, excitement, creativity, and joy. Then there is the motivation and strength to overcome difficulties.

Artem Berman: Got it. The next question, ‘What does your family think about your work?’ Well, in this case about your intensive schedule. What do your husband, parents, relatives think? Do they support you or don’t they understand? What do they think about your work and your intense schedule?’

Viktoria Bondar: Life has taught me that everything has its own price. It is not necessarily a monetary fee, but you will definitely have to pay. The easiest way is to pay money for services or work. When it is appropriate, I agree on the terms in advance and then pay money (even to relatives) for doing some errands that I do not have time for. Young people in our family always want to earn extra money. For the children, this has become an exciting game: set a price, bargain, decide how to spend the money, etc. I teach them to see the possibilities and use them 100%. Every family member wants attention and love, and it takes more effort than the most difficult business meeting. The most valuable resource for me is time and freedom (in everything). We respect the choice of everyone in the family, even if someone does not agree with it. Adapting to the situation is not our way; everyone has the right to express their opinion. General agreement on a decision is also not required; a majority is enough.

Artem Berman: Are your children small, or do they already go to school?

Viktoria Bondar: They are 11 and 7 years old.

Artem Berman: I can imagine. Is your work related to your education? Roughly speaking, do you work in your specialty? In principle, you have already answered that there was an experience when you worked in your specialty and then moved on to business, is that so?

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, it was so.

Artem Berman: Now the question is, maybe it’s simple and obvious … Nevertheless, ‘Do you think that higher education provides more opportunities in life and a greater chance of finding a job?’
Viktoria Bondar: Undoubtedly, the answer is positive, but note: the quality of such education plays a key role. In general, I believe that all our ills are from ignorance.

Artem Berman: Well, yes, and the more I get to know, the more I understand that I do not know anything.

Viktoria Bondar: Exactly.

Artem Berman: Excellent. The question is, ‘How do you maintain your level in the profession?’

Viktoria Bondar: The last three years have been intense: I graduated from the Edinburgh Business School, and I was certified as the highest level project director (A) according to the international certification scheme for IPMA project managers. In India, I experimented with Ayurveda to feel my body better and improve my health.

Artem Berman: Got it. It’s interesting that this experience helps you too. I live in a material world. Your universe is more colorful. That’s interesting. A simple question, perhaps because I know the answer, “Do you receive any financial support from the state?” I mean: pension, anything.

Viktoria Bondar: I went through a special medical commission to draft the relevant documents (this was compulsory since I was a civil servant), but I refused to register for a pension and payments.

Artem Berman: Are you satisfied with your level of income for now?

Viktoria Bondar: I’m satisfied with it.

Artem Berman: Artem Berman: Super. Viktoria, we have reached the last question. It is the last question, but it consists of six parts. These will be phrases, which end with an ellipsis, and they need to be finished. You can finish them as you wish. Well, it can be one word, ten words. For example, the first one is the oddest, but nevertheless: “I …” If you need some help, to know how people answer, tell me. So far, “I …” Well, finish it.

Viktoria Bondar: I love my life.

Artem Berman: Super! “Before the accident I was …”

Viktoria Bondar: Reckless.

Artem Berman: “I can …” or “I am capable …”

Viktoria Bondar: To achieve everything I want.

Artem Berman: Okay. “In future I see myself …”

Viktoria Bondar: Having achieved what I wanted.

Artem Berman: The last two statements. One of them is positive, the other one is negative. “I’m afraid of …”

Viktoria Bondar: Uncertainty.

Artem Berman: Okay. And the last one, “I want …”

Viktoria Bondar: To know myself.

Artem Berman: Super! Viktoria, look, in principle, we have finished the interview. Well, if you have no questions, then thank you very much.

Artem Berman: The scars of the experience, I think, remain for your whole life. And you cannot do anything about it: both on the body and in the soul. But at some stage, the positive outweighs the negative, which is also present in this life.

Viktoria Bondar: All the most terrible things are in a person’s head: in his judgments and assessments of himself and others. Everyone is capable of bearing only his own torments. Knowing the trials of some of my loved ones, I understand that I would not be able to survive them, just as they could not survive my trials.

Artem Berman: This is understandable. However, it is so hard to just go to the cancer institute and understand that everything is fine with you. What is important is what you told me, which I am not hearing for the first time, and which, to some extent, I have experienced: the ability to set and achieve a goal is also very important in life. Many simply live without purpose. When the goal is set, reaching it is also a buzz.

Viktoria Bondar: Yes, all of our goals often come from the material world. However, if we hypothetically imagine that tomorrow is the end of everything, then all of them will lose their meaning, and the meaning will become quite different.

Artem Berman: I have this moment now, so I listen to you very carefully.

Viktoria Bondar: We always get what we sincerely wish for, once the appropriate payment has been made. A common mistake is that we want to realize our desired scenario without thinking about the consequences, and the universe has a lot of them. (For example, you sincerely wanted to get rich (the key) as a result of a successful marriage, winnings at the casino, or something else (the options). And… you get rich through an inheritance as a result of the death of a close relative who was very much loved. No matter that you did not want him dead, the desire to get rich, after all, was sincere and strong). When you ask for a desire to be realized, the universe itself will choose the way by which you will come to it. Your present moment is a result of your previous behavior, actions and the choices you made. There is a potential (as a program of abilities and talents) that needs to be realized, and, if possible, you should step out of it into free choice (acceptance of the world as an infinite number of opportunities and unlimited potential). Going contrary to my nature, such an implementation has always proved deadly for me.

Artem Berman: I understand your opinion, although I cannot accept it, because I am very practical. Maybe everything that you have already passed through is still ahead of me, and maybe I will never get there, because it is difficult for me to accept that besides the table, chair, computer, there are still some subtle bodies and other things. When that story happened to me at the age of 16, and I lay for a year, dying with fever, thinking, among other things, that I was going crazy, I had a dialogue with the psychiatrist of the city of Kherson at that time. I also had a question: “Why me?” And he had a simple answer: “Why not you?” And that was enough for me, really. Since then, whenever in life it happens, it would seem, why me, why is it happening to me, then: why not you, how are you better than others? Well, it happens. As our American friends say, shit happens.

Viktoria Bondar: There is another good answer to the question why: because.

Artem Berman: Yes, then everything makes sense.

Viktoria Bondar: In India they say that you need to be cautious with your desires. To desire something is to make an irrevocable choice. The consequences of this choice can be the most unexpected and change the whole subsequent life in a fraction of a second. In this sense, I have become very cautious and follow such rules, for example: if not asked, do not offer (help, advice, etc.), do not criticize (do not judge; you have not been in the situation in which a person made such a decision), live according to nature (because life has boundaries, after which it is impossible to turn back), etc.

Artem Berman: Yes, I understand what you are talking about. But there are two things. Even more. One thing is to understand, another is to accept, and the third is to do something in this direction. I am at the level of the concept, but accepting and doing something, that will come after some time. I think so. Each fruit has its own time. An apple picked in May will be sour, and in September it will be rotten. Maybe I’m waiting for my July.

Viktoria Bondar: Surely.

Artem Berman: I heard many interesting things from you, and once again thank you very much for your time.

Viktoria Bondar: Same to you. All the best.

Artem Berman: Thank you, all the best.