Oleg Ivanenko

Artem Berman: So, look, there are three questionnaires: ‘I have never worked,’ ‘I used to work, but I don’t work now’ and ‘I am currently employed.’ What is your choice?

Oleg Ivanenko: I choose the last option.

Artem Berman: You mean, ‘I am currently employed.’ Perfect. So, we have standard questions. Let’s go through them fast. Do you allow this interview…

Oleg Ivanenko: Yes.

Artem Berman: To be used for research purposes? Do you allow this interview…

Oleg Ivanenko: Yes.

Artem Berman: To be published on the site iemployed.org. Do you want to use your real name or any pseudonym?

Oleg Ivanenko: Do as you please.

Artem Berman: What is your name?

Oleg Ivanenko: I am Ivanenko Oleg Valerievich.

Artem Berman: How old are you?

Oleg Ivanenko: I am 40 years old.

Artem Berman: What is your gender?

Oleg Ivanenko: I am not planning to surprise you (laughs). I am probably in the critical minority in Ukraine, because from my understanding of things that are going on around, the other type of people are in the majority.

Artem Berman: That’s the way the cookie crumbles. Do you live alone or with your wife, with your children?

Oleg Ivanenko: I live alone.

Artem Berman: Okay. What kind of disability do you have?

Oleg Ivanenko: Neck, free diving. It’s a common story.

Artem Berman: It’s a standard story. It is a diver’s injury.

Oleg Ivanenko: Let’s go on.

Artem Berman: The next question is a detailed one. How and when did your social rehabilitation start? At what age did you get the trauma? It’s important to understand.

Oleg Ivanenko: It was in 1995.

Artem Berman: How old were you?

Oleg Ivanenko: I was 15.

Artem Berman: You were 15. Therefore, it seems to me, your social rehabilitation happened at the same time as your moving into adulthood…

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, you know, probably it was not like this. My growing-up started much earlier. I had already been a mature person at that time. I knew what I wanted, what I wanted out of life. Therefore, there were no complex transformations.

Artem Berman: So, you didn’t lie around feeling sorry for yourself. You knew what you wanted at once. You started to move on.

Oleg Ivanenko: I came around, and I immediately had an elastic band for exercises. So, there was neither prostration nor misreading of the situation. After the jump, I was in the water for a long time, all night. Well, I had already understood everything by that time. It was clear that I had a neck trauma. Since I was a professional sportsman, we were taught what could happen, what the consequences could be, and if it happened, it would be a life sentence. So after about 2 hours I realized that it would be a different reality, and I needed to succeed or whatever. Yes, it probably is. Well, if you understand where you are, your bifurcation point, then you understand how you should move. It did not come at once, but over several years, I fully understood how everything had to be done.

Artem Berman: Okay.

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, I completely rehabilitated myself. I had my own recovery system.

Artem Berman: Well, you are referring to physical rehabilitation, aren’t you? However, I am interested precisely in social rehabilitation.

Oleg Ivanenko: Social… It (trauma) did not change my decisions, which were made when I was about 12 years old. I mean a university, a school … Graduation, university. Then there were exercises at home. Well, my home was fully equipped.

Artem Berman: Did you go outside, talk to people, go to the cinema, go to restaurants, or did you have a pause?

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, when I could do it by myself… Well, you still remember that year, 1992. It’s not a good story. Well… I had an aim to move around the city independently. It became a reality to move independently after 8 years of daily exercises. Now I am planning a big… well, I’ll sign and give you the book, ‘C5: Impossible is possible’. The moments when it was difficult are described there. It was difficult at the first moment, I remember it clearly, I remember when I had spent 3 weeks in the rehabilitation center, and then we were taken outside. There were two people with neck traumas. It was a matter of all those eyes. Well, you know, then I stepped back, looked at myself and said, ‘Well, it has already happened, don’t think about it anymore.’ Well, since that time I do not define myself as a person who moves differently. Well, I don’t think about it at all. Probably, it was like that from the beginning. No matter how you move. What does matter is your way of thinking.

Artem Berman: It makes sense. I have the next question. Again, the question is just a framework. You can go into detail, and the more information you provide, the better it will be. Your education before and after your trauma. Where did you study? Why? What was the faculty?

Oleg Ivanenko: I finished school, I completed the eleventh grade, and I completed my studies at university, at the Faculty of Economics. However, there was a transformation, because, after one year at the Faculty of Economics, I understood that I wanted more, and since the basic knowledge in Economics was enough, I graduated from the Faculty of International Economy and Law.

Artem Berman: Do you work for a company or for yourself?

Oleg Ivanenko: I have never worked for anyone. I am deeply sure that every person, if he/she analyzes himself/herself and wants to become a whole and balanced human being, at a certain moment he/she should realize that one should have not a salary, but an income. Then the paradigm of attitude to different things changes. As soon as the person realizes that income is the priority, besides, you start to understand that income can come regardless of whether you are working on it or not, and you free up a lot of time to meet other challenges, well, actually, because what is money? Money is the time we buy, and independence.

Artem Berman: Did you have a feeling that you were working with limited resources?

Oleg Ivanenko: I still feel like this. I would like to have a bit more resources. This is the situation when the scale of the tasks to be solved depends on the volume of existing resources. In each situation, you proceed from the volume of your resources, including intellectual, time, well, and financial resources.

Artem Berman: Then, let it be the next question at once. Can you say a few words about your work and the difficulties connected with your disability that you meet at work, if you have any?

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, I told you right away that I don’t have any limitations. Well, it’s jurisprudence, economics, business, politics. It’s politics; it’s professional political activity. I was the first person in Ukraine elected to a large representative body of state power under the majority system. This is also a transformation of the consciousness of people. I was a deputy of the city council. I am a deputy of the Regional Council now. I was elected under the majority system again. This is when people choose, and there has been a change in collective perception. It moved from the perception of you as the person who needs help to the person who can help. Things change. In my city, no one even has the thought to look back to see what interesting situation has happened, who that is in a wheelchair. It’s because it’s boring to do. It seems to me, everyone understands Ivanenko is going by. Who is he? I’m going to tell you now. See?

Artem Berman: Okay. What were the main reasons why you started to work, and why do you go on now? What sets you in motion in this life? Sex, boxing, rock-and-roll?

Oleg Ivanenko: This is an aim. This is the biggest task, structured and divided into phases. However, I also explain to students in grades 7-11 that, first, they need to understand their system of values. When they get a scale of values, at least from the first point to the fifth one, and it’s better to have it up to the tenth point, then this scale of values, your scale of values, which defines you, is the first step to an accurate understanding of what you want in this life. The second one is your aim, which may seem fantastic for some period, but it doesn’t matter. The more fantastic it seems, the more of a challenge it is. First, it’s because of the interest of realizing it, and it’s a great way of life. Well, you should also have an accurate understanding that everything you will do in life should be rational. Everything you do in this life should have a causal link. Well, that’s the story.

Artem Berman: The next question is also about your work. Can you imagine yourself unemployed?

Oleg Ivanenko: With pleasure.

Artem Berman: What would be the consequences of such a step?

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, we should understand what… Well, we need a definition. Is work considered a process of earning money, or is it just a process?

Artem Berman: Okay. Say a few words about both the first and the second definitions. The first question is whether you have worked enough to go off to the islands. The second question is whether you could imagine yourself lying around and doing nothing. Wouldn’t you go mad?

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, again. I don’t have an option to do nothing in my paradigm of tasks. Well, if I had, well, some people, probably, have such a scale of values and tasks. I mean to earn enough money to go to the islands. Well, then, it’s okay. However, this is completely different in my coordinate system. Firstly, I can afford to do this. Secondly, if I did this, if I went to the islands, I would find something to do there. It would be like this if it happened, and if I didn’t have a choice. Since I have other aims and tasks, my answer is ‘I can do it, but I won’t do it.’ I do this. I go abroad for several weeks in winter and do nothing on whatever islands I want. That’s it. I reboot my consciousness.

Artem Berman: The next question is whether you perceive work, well, in this case as a process, as an important mechanism for integrating a person into society?

Oleg Ivanenko: No! I don’t perceive work like this. You probably need it… Well, again, we’ve already come to an understanding. Yes, probably, during some period you work to earn money. This is a necessity because current conditions and technologies make it possible to earn a lot of money fast, very fast. It’s because we have technologies. It was impossible earlier. Moreover, we got our traumas when it was just impossible.

Artem Berman: What kind of technologies? Give an example.

Oleg Ivanenko: What kind of technologies make it possible to earn money? Well, all of them are here now. In general, I understand that the most promising thing in the world is algorithms. Yes, these are algorithms now. Besides, this is the theory, the history of numbers, which gives possibilities to make informed decisions. Probability calculus is the fundamental science for me. It is one of the most exact sciences for me. I realize this. All these things make it possible to make these decisions more accurately now. Accordingly, more accurate decisions lead …

Artem Berman: The saving of time.

Oleg Ivanenko: To tremendous results, which, well, make it easier to provide yourself with resources quickly. You probably understand that after another million, money doesn’t make sense for you. It makes sense when you have an aim, and you are living up to it. Well, this is it. Long ago, economists calculated that after $600,000, it just didn’t make any sense for you.
Everything you do in this life, every act should have a causal link according to your big life plan and the challenge you meet, everything you do. Accordingly, every time you think about how to simplify this. You think about what to do to make others do it for you. Well, we are… Well, I became aware of this after I started to move differently. Well, you probably know that I have an uncomfortable haircut. It’s because I’ve never done my hair by myself. You should organize everything so accurately that people will do it for you. They are fired up with an idea, with a task. Never mind. That is another story. However, you are always at your best. No one can even imagine that you’ve never fastened buttons by yourself in this life. Not even for a moment in life, although you can learn this in theory. Theoretically, I can learn how to do hair. However, this is not practical.

Artem Berman: Look, I have another two questions. What supports you besides this internal driver, what else drives you in this life? Family, friends, environment, hobbies? What drives you?

Oleg Ivanenko: Well, we have things that we like, and we must find time and opportunity to do them. You definitely have to understand why you enjoy life. You can’t live without this. I mean, you should spend some time with these activities. Games, women, fishing … This is a short answer. We’re not inventing anything new …

Artem Berman: Of course.

Oleg Ivanenko: It’s because a whole person, embodied in human consciousness and existence here, is probably … For the reason that you and I have read everything, and everything has been written about it by everyone long ago. That’s why we’ve chosen the best passages and use them now. It’s simple.

Artem Berman: Is your work, your business connected with your education? Was it useful, your education?

Oleg Ivanenko: Yes, of course. Returning to our subject, at some phase you should understand that you must do something else. That’s it. Probably, I didn’t have time to study a foreign language perfectly, and since I understand how much time I would have to spend now, I do not dare to spend it. Because… It’s not that I don’t have time. You can put on headphones, and it will buzz away, but you are distracted. What is the most important task for a person who is engaged in large structures or large tasks? His/her biggest task, and the process where he/she spends most of his/her time, is to think. To think and make more balanced, competent, and rational decisions. And it distracts from thinking, a piece of shit. Bullshit! What the fuck do you need it for? In a few years, translators will translate everything using…

Artem Berman: Artificial intelligence and other things.

Oleg Ivanenko: Yes. I am told that it develops the brain. I say that it is not what develops the brain. Foreign languages do not develop the brain. The brain is developed by the information or experience of those people who faced it and concentrated it in their work. This is what you do. This is what you will concentrate on. I will read your work with pleasure. I’ll spend my time on this.

Artem Berman: Okay. The last question can be irrelevant for you, but I will ask. Do you have any financial support from the state, and is it a considerable part of your total income? Well, let’s put it like this. I can imagine the answer.

Oleg Ivanenko: I dream of building a model in the state when the state understands that for the implementation and transformation of ideas that bring huge resources and income to the state or free up these resources and income, the person who did it must get a lot of money. This should be honest money and official taxes. It doesn’t exist now; we have just an American half-model. However, as soon as this happens, and you understand that the task you have completed is socially significant and global, and everyone realizes the value of this challenge, that it must bring you crazy resources, then it will be productive, in my understanding, to work with state resources, with public finance. While we don’t have such a system, but we can do it, it will be theft. It is considered theft in this country. I know thousands of ways to make money from the state. I do not use any of them.

Artem Berman: Okay. I have the last question. I’m going to say 4 phrases. I will start them, and you will finish. This is a bit of a philosophical story. Just off the top of your head. The first phrase is ‘I am capable of…’

Oleg Ivanenko: I am capable of anything.

Artem Berman: ‘I will be…’

Oleg Ivanenko: I will be whatever I want myself to be.

Artem Berman: ‘I want…’

Oleg Ivanenko: I want.

Artem Berman: ‘I am afraid of…’

Oleg Ivanenko: I’m not afraid of almost anything. Well, we should feel fear because it is …

Artem Berman: The instinct.

Oleg Ivanenko: Exactly. If you hear a loud sound, you need to do something to protect yourself. In general, it is not about having or not having fear. It is about knowing how to deal with it.

Artem Berman: Thank you…

Oleg Ivanenko: And thank you.