Artem Berman: Hey. Hello, Viktoria. Viktoria Bondar: Hello, Artem. Artem Berman: If you allow me, we can start. It will take approximately one hour of your time. Viktoria Bondar: Okay. Artem Berman: I have three types of questions. The first one – ‘I have never worked.’ The second one – ‘I was employed but I am not employed presently. Permanently or temporarily.’ Viktoria Bondar: I have been working since I was 17 years old. Artem Berman: Super-super. Then we will start our interview. To a greater extent, the subject is narrowly focused, but it includes some private aspects. That’s why you should answer within your comfort zone. Of course, you should not tell us those things that are uncomfortable for you. Since the research is qualitative, then, of course, the more diverse information you will provide us the better it will be. Well, the answers are supposed to be opened, but not closed ones. I mean they won’t be, ‘Do you smoke? – Yes, no.’ The question will be rather, ‘How do you feel about smoking?’ This will give you the possibility to express your attitude. Well, it’s clear that we won’t talk about smoking. Well, let’s start. So, the first question. Six questions will be quick and simple, let’s say, formal. The first question, “Do you allow to use this interview for the scientific research?” Viktoria Bondar: Yes, I do. Artem Berman: Do you allow to publish the interview on the website? Viktoria Bondar: Yes, I do. Artem Berman: Would you like to use your real name or any pseudonym? Viktoria Bondar: My real name. Artem Berman: What is your name? Viktoria Bondar: Viktoria Bondar. Artem Berman: Contact information – e-mail, phone number. Viktoria Bondar: We have exchanged. Artem Berman: How old are you? Viktoria Bondar: 39. Artem Berman: And then, “Gender”. You are unlikely to surprise me. Viktoria Bondar: Feminine. Artem Berman: Do you live independently or with your parents, or other relatives, or a partner? Are you married? Do you have children or you don’t have them? Viktoria Bondar: I am married. I have two children. Artem Berman: Okay, got it. The ninth question. Again, please answer within your comfort. What kind of disability do you have? Trauma? Disease? Viktoria Bondar: At the age of 20, because of the traffic accident I got spinal compression fracture (four vertebrae were crushed, and the fifth was crushed and broken), cerebrospinal axis, multiple fractures of the right side of the body, the right clavicle protruded forward (like a broken piano key), articulation of the right hand made it dead. The impact was so powerful that many of the muscles in the body exploded and scattered between the bones. At the time of the accident, I woke up in the back seat, driver’s side. Ironically, it turned out to be the most dangerous place in the car. Such a shock at the time of sleep became a powerful blow to the nervous system. I could not breathe, every movement (even a sip of saliva) caused a scream of pain, the body couldn’t function normally anymore. At the time of the accident I survived just because I did not fly out the window (I was caught by a friend who was sitting next to me). And the fifth vertebra is practically immovable (even in a broken form) in the human body. Artem Berman: How did it influence your life in all aspects, in all its variety? How did it influence your social, family, personal, professional, educational life etc ? Viktoria Bondar: "Character is a destiny" ... What happened to me was the result of my desire to live 100%, neglecting potential risks. I risked a lot and it was unjustifiable. Only after that situation, I understood the meaning of the phrase, ‘Do not think about death, it thinks of you without your desire ...’ The result is obvious, I was looking for it, and I found it… Artem Berman: Then everything was even worse. Viktoria Bondar: I thought that strong emotions and an adrenaline lifestyle could forget the pain of losing a significant other, that I felt before the accident. I was wrong. The more adrenaline was, the more emotional pain I felt. I understand now that it takes years to get over it, to have the strength to face pain, to accept and understand. It is necessary to give yourself time at that moment when you do not have strength. I can say for sure, as soon as I devalued my life, I received such a physical trial, which forced me to prove its value every day all my life. Artem Berman: Clear. Viktoria Bondar: When at age 19 you die emotionally, and a year later as a result of an accident the body also refuses to live, then all is at an end. Then I heard phrases: ‘there is almost no chance’, ‘things will get worse’, ‘and nothing will help you, there is no cure for such pain’, ‘... and is she still alive?’ There was a surprising calmness from the thought that, finally, all is at the end. At that moment, only those people who really loved me were fighting for me, who was not afraid to tell me the truth in the face and cried with me from unbearable pain. They literally made me live, especially at the first. I did not have the strength to fight for myself. Artem Berman: What happened then? Viktoria Bondar: Since no one could help me, I was taken out of the military zone to Kiev first by bus and then by plane. In Kiev, there were only military surgeons who agreed to examine me. Their verdict was to cancel a strong anesthetic; if you want to live, then you will survive, and if you do not want to live, then no one can do anything to you; take the moomiyo. Artem Berman: Yes, yes. Viktoria Bondar: Three weeks after the accident, the hardcore began. I was lying on the board day and night, I could not move, because every movement caused unbearable pain. They fed me and gave me water forcibly because it also unbearably hurt. I cried and waited for death to set me free from my suffering body. When asked whether I had at least someone/something for the sake of whom / what I am ready to fight in my life, I answered – NO. Now I understand that I put the question wrong. Artem Berman: It turns out that the response to the question, "How did this affect your life in all its dimensions, I mean, social, family etc ?" was that it ruined it, if briefly… Viktoria Bondar: Yes, exactly. When the dream was gone and painful hallucinations began, the reality became completely different. I definitely felt the moment of appearing of endless nothing, in which there is no life. I realized that I had given a life resource, and until it is over, I must live. Family, society and material things became meaningless to me. I did not want to live with pain and hurt others. My terrible reality was unimaginable in their eyes. Artem Berman: I understand, yes. Viktoria Bondar: The most persistent fighters in the struggle for me were my father and my girlfriend. Dad stubbornly accepted everything, but one day he stated: "... when a person wants to die, he/she can not be kept, when you take this way, no one will need you, even beloved ones. As soon as you decide this, I will send you to the hospital immediately, so that you die there. I did not see anyone in my life who the world would fight for. Choose for yourself." Then his words caused a huge insult to me. Only since then I realized that my offense was to myself: first, I did not need myself. A friend is a unique person. She just came to stay with me and share my pain. Do not teach, do not help, but just to be with me ... When I asked her, “Why are you here?” The answer was simple, "You know, I feel the need to be here, and I understand that just my presence here is changing a lot." When you have at least one such person in your life, then it’s already a reason to stay Artem Berman: I see. Let us smoothly move on to the next question, namely, “How did the process of your rehabilitation begin? Social one is included. What was the process of coming back to the society? Who was helping you and what were the main difficulties?” Viktoria Bondar: I had been trying to find the answer to this question why I should live for a long time. One night I had a dream. I saw a little girl who told me, "Mom, if you die, then I can never come into this world." Then I was so shocked. That dream changed me. The world always answers quickly when the question is formulated clearly and sincerely Artem Berman: Back to the question, “Do you have two children?” Viktoria Bondar: Yes two children. And my first daughter was born. I needed six years to run the gamut from learning how to breathe, swallow and hold a spoon in my hands to the birth of a child. You know, I realized how reasonably nature planned everything, teaching us physiological skills at an early age when a child is ready to do the same thing a thousand times. To learn the same skills in adulthood is a thousand time more difficult. My body did not listen to my mind (when the brain gives the command to do and the body does not), then the main question arose - how to help yourself. Artem Berman: Did you use a wheelchair or ...? Viktoria Bondar: No. I was given a wheelchair on the second day in the hospital and said, “Sit down, we will get you to the car”. It was unbearably painful to sit down and I decided that I would walk along the wall until I could move. Later I decided that I would not sit in it for fear that I would begin to feel sorry for myself and then life would change irrevocably. I used respiratory gymnastics and physiotherapy exercises at the beginning of rehabilitation, and later yoga and pranayama. Artem Berman: The function creates the organ. Viktoria Bondar: Lying on the board, I learned to breathe: first superficially, then deeper and deeper. Proper breathing pushed the bones and muscles back into place. I managed to put my collarbone on its natural place and pull some of the muscle from the shoulder joint into the chest. After that, the hand began to move a little. Lying, I tried to move, then gradually lift up various parts of the body. By that time, a part of the muscles had already atrophied and did not obey at all. I tried not to concentrate on this, but to look for what happened today better than yesterday. I imagined in my mind how I was doing what I could not do, and eventually the body responded to me with feedback. I practice this until now. After three weeks I stood straight, it was still unbearably painful to sit. Artem Berman: Do you meant it was three weeks after the injury or from the moment...? Viktoria Bondar: Starting from the moment of sleep, it inspired me. Three months have passed since the injury. I learned to walk along the wall. There were 25-30 unbearable steps from my room to the toilet, and then the way back. Artem Berman: Well, it was some kind of magic devices in the form of a knee or Canadian crutch or did you just go without any ...? Viktoria Bondar: Without anything. I walked along the wall and sometimes pushed a stool in front of me (to stand on it with one knee at dizziness). Professional sports taught me how to work with the body, I had to learn patience and relaxation. Artem Berman: How? Viktoria Bondar: I could not sleep. I had to figure out how to relax the body so that the brain doesn’t work. I'm not a religious person, so my friend's advice to start praying surprised me. Until now I did not know any prayers except "Our Father". Then I thought that I was still lying, it was better to pray than focus on pain in the whole body. The only prayer could free me from my thoughts and put me to sleep for a short time. Artem Berman: What happened physically? Viktoria Bondar: The body has changed до неузнаваемости. Friends passed by on the street. Then I gathered all my strength and left Ukraine. I went back abroad, I designed myself dumbbells: I took two plastic bottles and I poured water every day for a hundred grams there. All the exercises I did just lying. Friends said that it was unbearable to look at my agony. Half a year after the accident, they brought me to the lake to swim. The lake was about 700 meters in diameter. Then I decided to swim across the lake, thinking, if I did it, then for sure I would live. They took an air mattress and swam alongside. I swam across the lake. Then I laid on the floor for a week in agony, but it was a turning point. I realized that the body was manageable. Artem Berman: The question is not for this interview but.., do you think that you are an adrenaline addict person? Well, I mean, the person who is looking for adrenalin, who needs tests and who will try bungee jumping or can jump off the cliff if tomorrow she has a possibility. Viktoria Bondar: I like to set goals that others consider unattainable for me and achieve them. If such a goal does not give new opportunities and can cause me physical suffering - I will refuse. I try to fill my life with joy and pleasure. The main condition - they must fill me and don’t destroy. This is not a momentary adrenaline, but a quiet joy of just being. It is difficult to feel this line, but it's even harder to keep it., it's too tempting to live again to the maximum. Artem Berman: I get it. Seeking risk is not your option… Viktoria Bondar: The risk must be planned and justified. The body should be prepared and the head is calm. Only then I decide to take a chance to risk. Artem Berman: It turns out that you like to set goals, and achieve them, and this is the thrill. Viktoria Bondar: Yes. Make a stand on my head (Сделать стойку на голове), which I never did before the injury, and now it's possible - this is happiness and the result, which motivates me to work with my body all the time. Artem Berman: Well, that's part of the character. Perhaps because of this, you have found the strength to cope with this ...Therefore, returning to the question "What was the process of returning to society? in principle, you said. That is, it took some time and an infinite amount of your effort, both moral and physical, right. What or who helped? What were the obstacles? What would you add to this question? Viktoria Bondar: In terms of socialization, I was helped by yoga. I'm not the only person in the world with similar difficulties and there are people with problems that are worse than mine. The world is so boundless and diverse that to live in constant thoughts about yourself and your problem means to limit yourself in everything. It's enough that there is a person next to him/her who would say, ‘I understand what’s happening to you and I accept you just the way you are …’ Artem Berman: I experienced the same. Viktoria Bondar: When the medicine can’t help in this situation, one needs someone who has experienced the same, who would help to accept themselves in a new state. Artem Berman: Yes. When it comes to rehabilitation, it reminds me the movie "Garage", ‘You have a wonderful profession. You do those things that don’t exist’. Rehabilitology is as a science. Viktoria Bondar: Sometimes a person who just sits next to you does more than all advisors. Artem Berman: I have a question at once, "Would you happen to have a cat?” Viktoria Bondar: No Artem Berman: Well, it seems… Viktoria Bondar: No, I like people. Artem Berman: Yes. Viktoria Bondar: At first, I needed solitude to immerse myself in and decide where to go. Since the decision to live has won, then the first interaction with people became a necessity, and now it is a pleasure. Artem Berman: So you needed a period of time and your own way to overcome difficulties. To be alone, to experience it in yourself. My understanding is that you needed to revive like a phoenix, and then to return to society in a new capacity. Viktoria Bondar: It sounds good to say ‘yes’. Solitude is not the way for everyone. If I had a choice, then I would like to spend this period of life among those who have experienced and overcome similar difficulties. There are people, who are ready and want to help overcome these challenges, we should abandon arrogance and accept the fact that we cannot live without any help. We need to trust the experience of others and do not stop trying every effort. The result as a reward in the struggle came at the moment when the strength and faith left at all. Artem Berman: And now I'll just ask another question. Let's start with education. Again, it’s up to you what to answer, ‘Did you have any education before the trauma happened?’ Viktoria Bondar: I entered the Faculty of Law at Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv. It was in 1996. At the end of the second course, I realized that I wanted to travel and I could go through external studies. I began to take my examinations as an extern. And in the third year, I passed an external year and transferred to the fifth year by correspondence. Well, I wanted to work and study simultaneously. I started to work as a lawyer approximately one year before the accident. Artem Berman: In parallel, you studied ... Viktoria Bondar: Yes, I studied by correspondence. Artem Berman: Have you received any education after trauma? Or have you already had it? Bachelor, for instance. And how did it happen? Viktoria Bondar: It happened that, at the peak of the trauma, I had finals. Excellent results in studying provided me with a good relationship with the teachers. I was known and helped me in a human way. I remember and appreciate it all my life. During my finals, the teachers scared that I would fall down and die. I looked so terrible. I passed everything quickly and then entered the magistracy. Well, I had six months to bring myself to a normal state and went on studying. Artem Berman: Well, in the end, you graduated from the university with a master's degree, so today you are a master of law. Two short questions: why did you use jurisprudence? Was it a family tradition or something else? And why did you choose this specialization and university? Viktoria Bondar: Jurisprudence was my childhood dream. I wanted to be an investigator. Criminal law attracted me very much. During my studies and practice, I liked to analyze, understand the psychology of the criminal, work with materials. Then I saw the corruption within the system and realized that I would spend many years of my life doing that thing that this system would destroy – justice. In view of my nature, upbringing, and knowledge - this meant betraying my principles and myself. Artem Berman: Well, roughly speaking, the realization that ideally you imagined a picture of how you are helping the society, but in practice ... Viktoria Bondar: The system has perverted everything. Artem Berman: So, you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs. Well, that’s Ukrainian realities, let’s call it so. Viktoria Bondar: Yes. I immediately decided that I'd better go to work as a lawyer in business. At least I'll know what I'm earning my money for. Artem Berman: Why did you use Shevchenko? Was it because it is the best university in the country or did you have other thoughts? Viktoria Bondar: Well, I'm such a perfectionist, and at that moment I thought that that best university in the country in order to become a class specialist. I have no lawyers in my family - only doctors, military, managers and architects. All of them are people with higher education and scientific degrees. My family did not have any support in this sphere, so I had been preparing for entering the university for three years. I decided that I would do my best and I did it. This is the other long story of the hard way and lots of life lessons. Artem Berman: Got it. Now let's move to the next question, Is it your first job or…? Viktoria Bondar: No, it is not. Artem Berman: And why did you leave previous places? Viktoria Bondar: I like to live with pleasure. So, it was always. While I didn’t have any family, I spent all my money on traveling. Artem Berman: So, you left the previous place of work because you left the country and, let’s say ... Viktoria Bondar: Before the injury, my work was just a way, but not a goal. I could find a suitable job regardless of location. Artem Berman: Freelance. Viktoria Bondar: Yes. After getting traumatized I left the civil service because it was unbearably painful to sit at the table all day long. I continued my working career as a lawyer in a shoe factory with a salary of 50 dollars a month. I could use it only for paying for getting to work, however, it was directly in front of the Kiev-Pechersk Lavra. Artem Berman: It was simultaneously with the continuation of studies at the university, the sixth year, but already in practice? Viktoria Bondar: Yes. Then it was difficult to work both physically and emotionally. Often, in order to get up in the morning, you had to concentrate all your strength. Everything was measured by distances: get to the subway, go to the office, walk around the floors, then go to court, then go home to fall and sleep. For many years, the most difficult was the morning, knowing that I was expecting for the day physically, but still, force myself to stand up and be positive for the whole day. Artem Berman: Okay, got it. In general, the place where you work now, does it give you any related to your health problems, some adaptive things, and, if so, what kind of adaptive support do you get? Viktoria Bondar: Well, I will say that 98 percent of the employees who work with me do not even know that something like this has ever happened to me. I'm not a spoiled worker, but when the work is complex and requires a lot of effort, I insist on good conditions for myself (good number, car, good food). I have always had with me a rug for yoga and a large mat Ljapko both at home and on the road - there is no need in other things. Artem Berman: Again, maybe it was a sliding schedule, well, the time when you could come later, leave earlier, anything? Viktoria Bondar: I live the rhythm of business. My task is to ensure the profit at a high level. Of course, sometimes I need to be out of range to revive. This is often critical before huge changes or starting a new complex project. When I provide an excellent result, I have complete freedom of leadership and appreciate it. For someone, it takes a lot of time, for someone it's not enough to achieve the same, so the value of the results is different. The computer and mobile are always with me, and my working day is not standardized. Artem Berman: We have the result, and other things don’t matter. Artem Berman: I heard, heard you, heard you. The next question. It is the fourteenth, ‘Have you ever been promoted? I do not even know how the word promoted will be in Russian. It seems to me, advanced. Have you ever been promoted on the career ladder? Do you see any career path in your current organization? Do you accept yourself as a candidate for promotion? If so, why, if not, why.’ Viktoria Bondar: Well, I'm often asked, ‘Why are you staying in this company for so long?’At the start of my career, I often changed jobs: I was interested in good money, new opportunities and knowledge. Soon I realized that it did not work that was developing me, but new knowledge. The work only makes it possible to apply them practically. Artem Berman: Did decree change your life? Viktoria Bondar: At first, I thought only of the child and decided to leave the company. However, as soon as this happened, then there was an idea to open my own business project (souvenir production) with coverage all over Ukraine, and just a month later it was offered to return to the company as the head of the Representative Office. The company approved such a combination. The project was successful. The next step was the opening of production for an even deeper penetration of the market. First, the war destroyed the production, and then the greater part of the project, but the main resource was the experience and I am still the official representative of the company in Ukraine. Artem Berman: You are the official representative of three ceramic factories in Ukraine. Do people listen to you; are you a full member of the collective who makes decisions? Viktoria Bondar: I present my vision of the strategy to the management and plan the achievable sales figures on the market. This is not a report, but a long-term, not one-day joint work, as a result of which all parties have a clear understanding of what and how will happen. My task is to identify and realize potential opportunities, to connect the interests of Ukrainian business with European business. Artem Berman: In addition to this, you have a democratic leadership style, right? Viktoria Bondar: Yes. I called this style a controlled democracy, adjusted to a cent. Artem Berman: I heard you. The next question is: "What are the main challenges and difficulties associated with the consequences of your trauma you are experiencing in your work now?" Viktoria Bondar: The manager should be prepared physically: it means that he/she should not only be stable, but more stable than everyone else. It is necessary to work with people of different temperaments, different moods, from different regions in conditions of stress and uncertainty ... Artem Berman: And you need to adapt instantly, understanding with whom you are dealing. Viktoria Bondar: I never sell them a product, I sell them business, opportunities and the vision of new ways of working together. Different knowledge and skills are needed. Artem Berman: Got it. Listen, the next question. You can answer it both in philosophical terms and in purely practical terms. The question is, "What were the reasons for you to start working and continue to work?". Well, there is money, self-realization, here you answer. What prompted you to begin and what motivates you to continue? Viktoria Bondar: Self-realization. Satisfaction from the achieved result. The ability to influence events and change people's lives (I hope that these are better changes). Artem Berman: We remove the economic component in brackets at this stage. Viktoria Bondar: To tell you the truth, when I realized that I could live on $ 50 a month ... Artem Berman: Nothing is scary anymore. Viktoria Bondar: The financial component is significant, especially when you have. Good conditions for them to grow up and study require much money. Maintaining the body in good condition and developing is also expensive. There is no miracle here. Artem Berman: Got it. The similar question, ‘Could you hypothetically imagine yourself as unemployed, I mean, you have left work, and what would be the consequences of this?’ Viktoria Bondar: Now there is no reason for this, but everything can happen. It is more interesting with people, you can achieve more together than alone. Artem Berman: Imagine that you have a house, a comfortable chair, a deckchair, a sand, a sun, a warm sea, and money, but there is no work. Could you live like this? Viktoria Bondar: Yes. I like to meditate in such conditions. How to measure the productivity in meditation? The answer: no way. Meditation makes me feel the internal resources, see the new possibilities of how to realize myself in all spheres of life that are interesting for me. And when I'm in the resource, then there's always something to do. This inaction is very productive for me. Artem Berman: It's like in a cartoon, ‘It's better to loose three days, but then to fly in five minutes.’ Viktoria Bondar: Yes, that's right. Artem Berman: Then we are talking about the option of leaving work as the achievement of nirvana? Moving from Sansara to Nirvana, is this elimination? Viktoria Bondar: I would not say that this is leaving people at all. I am not about it. While you are in society, you can understand the adequacy of what is happening in your head. Artem Berman: Super, I have the seventeenth question about it, ‘Do you perceive work as an important mechanism of rehabilitation and integration into society?’ I think, yes. Viktoria Bondar: Surely. The work should give people pleasure, excitement, creativity, and joy. Then there is the motivation and strength to overcome difficulties. Artem Berman: Got it. The next question, ‘What does your family think about your work?" Well, in this case about your intensive schedule. What does the husband, parents, relatives think? Do they support you or don’t they understand? What do they think about your work and your intense schedule?’ Viktoria Bondar: Life taught me that everything had its own price. This is not necessarily a money fee, but you will definitely have to pay. The easiest way is to pay money for the services or work. When it is appropriate, then I pre-stipulate the terms and then pay off with money (even with relatives) for the performance of some errands for which I do not have time. Young people in our family always want to earn extra money. For children, this has become an exciting game: set a price, bargain, distribute how to spend money, etc. I teach them to see the possibilities and use them for 100%. Every family member wants attention and love and it takes more efforts than the most difficult business meeting. The most valuable resource for me is time and freedom (in everything). We respect the choice of everyone in the family, even if someone does not agree with him/her. Adapting to the situation we have not taken, everyone has the right to express their opinion. General agreement for a decision is also not required, a majority is enough. Artem Berman: Are your children small or they already go to school? Viktoria Bondar: They are 11 and 7 years old. Artem Berman: I can imagine. Is your work related to your education? Roughly speaking, do you work in your specialty? In principle, you have already answered that there was an experience when you worked in the specialty and then moved on to business, is that so? Viktoria Bondar: Yes, it was so. Artem Berman: Now the question is, maybe it's simple and obvious ... Nevertheless, ‘Do you think that higher education provides more opportunities in life and a greater opportunity for finding a job?" Viktoria Bondar: Undoubtedly, the answer is positive, but note: the quality of such education plays a key role. In general, I believe that all our ills are from ignorance. Artem Berman: Well, yes, and the more I get to know, the more I understand that I do not know anything. Viktoria Bondar: Exactly. Artem Berman: Excellent. The question is, ‘How do you maintain your level in the profession?’ Viktoria Bondar: The last three years have been intense: I graduated from the Edinburgh business school, I was certified as the highest level project director (A) according to the international certification scheme for IPMA project managers. In India, I experimented with Ayurveda to the better feeling of my body and improving my health. Artem Berman: Got it. It's interesting that this experience helps you too. I live in a material country. Your universe is more colorful. That's interesting. A simple question, perhaps because I know the answer, "Do you receive any financial support from the state?" I mean - pension, anything. Viktoria Bondar: I passed a special medical commission to draft the relevant documents (this was compulsory since I was a civil servant), I refused to register pensions and payments. Artem Berman: Are you satisfied with your level of income for now? Viktoria Bondar: I'm satisfied with it. Artem Berman: Artem Berman: Super. Viktoria, we have reached the last question. It is the last question, but it consists of six parts. These will be phrases, which end with an ellipsis, and they need to be finished. You can finish them as you wish. Well, it can be one word, ten words. For example, the first one is the oddest, but nevertheless: "I ..." If you need some help; to know how people answer, tell me. So far, "I ..." Well, finish it. Viktoria Bondar: I love my life. Artem Berman: Super! "Before the accident I was ..." Viktoria Bondar: Reckless. Artem Berman: "I can ..." or "I am capable ..." Viktoria Bondar: To achieve everything I want. Artem Berman: Okay. "In future I see myself ..." Viktoria Bondar: Achieved what I wanted. Artem Berman: The last two statements. One of them is positive, the other one is negative. "I'm afraid of ..." Viktoria Bondar: Uncertainty. Artem Berman: Okay. And the last one, "I want ..." Viktoria Bondar: To know myself. Artem Berman: Super! Viktoria, look, in principle, we have finished the interview. Well, if you have no questions, then thank you very much. Artem Berman: Scars of the experience, I think, remain for the whole life. And you cannot do anything with this: both on the body and in your soul. But at some stage, positive outweighs negative that is also presented in this life. Viktoria Bondar: All the most terrible in the person's head: in his judgments and assessments of himself and others. Everyone is capable of only his torments. Knowing the trials of some of my loved ones, I understand that I would not be able to survive like they could not survive my trials. Artem Berman: This is understandable. However, it is so hard just go to the cancer institute and understand that everything is fine with you. What is important is what you told me, what I do not hear from the first, and, to some extent, I have experienced - the ability to set and achieve a goal is also very important in life. Many live simply without purpose. When the goal is set, to reach it is also a buzz. Viktoria Bondar: Yes, all of our goals often come from the material world. However, if we hypothetically imagine that tomorrow is the end of everything, then all of them will lose their meaning and the meaning will become quite different. Artem Berman: I have this moment now, so I listen to you very carefully. Viktoria Bondar: We always get what we sincerely wish, when the appropriate salary is introduced. A common mistake is that we want to realize our desired scenario, without thinking about the consequences, and the universe has a lot of them. (For example, you sincerely wanted to get rich (key) as a result of a successful marriage, winnings in the casino, or something else (options). And... you get rich by inheriting as a result of the death of a close relative, who was very loved.No matter what you did not want him dead, the desire to get rich after all was sincere and strong). When you ask to realize the desire, the universe itself will choose the way that you will come to it. Your present moment is a result of the previous behavior, actions and made choices. There is a potential (as a program of abilities and talents) that needs to be realized, and if possible get out of it in free choice (acceptance of the world as an infinite number of opportunities and unlimited potential). Going contrary to my nature and such an implementation for me has always proved deadly. Artem Berman: I understand your opinion, although I can not accept it, because I am very practical. Maybe I have everything ahead of you that you have already passed, and maybe I will never do it because it is difficult for me to accept that besides the table, chair, computer, there are still some subtle bodies and other things. I, when the story happened at the age of 16, and I, a year, lay and died with fever, including thinking that I'm going crazy, I had a dialogue with the psychiatrist of the city of Kherson at that time. I also had a question: "Why me?" And he had a simple answer: "Why not you?" And I had enough, that's real. Since then, that, in life, it does, it would seem, why I, why with me, why not you, what are you better than others? Well, it happens. As our American friends say, shit happens. Viktoria Bondar: There is another good answer to the question why: because. Artem Berman: Yes, then everything makes sense. Viktoria Bondar: In India they say that you need to be cautious about something. To desire, something is to make an irrevocable choice. The consequences of this choice can be the most unexpected and change the whole subsequent life in a fraction of a second. In this sense, I have become very cautious and follow such rules, for example: do not ask - do not advice (with help, advice, etc.), do not criticize (do not judge, you could not be in a situation in which a person took such a solution), live by nature (because life has boundaries, after which it is impossible to turn back), etc. Artem Berman: Yes, I understand what you are talking about. But there are two things. Even more. One story is to understand, another is to accept, and the third is to do something in this direction. I am at the level of the concept, but to accept and to do something - this will be after some period. I think so. Each fruit has its own time. The apple is broken in May, it will be sour, and in September it will be rotten. Maybe I'm waiting for my July. Viktoria Bondar: Surely. Artem Berman: I heard many interesting things of you and once again thank you very much for your time. Viktoria Bondar: Same to you. All the best. Artem Berman: Thank you, all the best.